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ANATOMY OF A SCREAM: |
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Interview with a
Forensic Pathologist
Forensic Pathologist: I was asked by a professor at a Louisiana university to come and do identification and recovery on bodies recovered in New Orleans. Dege: These are the bodies of people that died during and after Hurricane Katrina. Forensic Pathologist: Yes. Dege: Tell about your first day on this job. Forensic Pathologist: I was not prepared for this. Before we were even allowed to go into the building, I was given 16 different injections. Dege: You mean like inoculations, preventative shots, and stuff? Forensic Pathologist: Yes. I got shots against Cholera, E. Coli, Typhus, West Nile…everything you can think of. For three hours, I had to go through this while they briefed me on what they were doing at the facility where they have the bodies. Dege: What kinds of things were they saying? Forensic Pathologist: That they had gone down to New Orleans, loaded the recovered bodies up into a freezer truck, driven them to LSU…and that the bodies may be contaminated or may contain numerous diseases. Dege: How many bodies would you say they grabbed? Forensic Pathologist: In that first truck, about 900. Dege: That number hasn’t even been reported in the news yet. Forensic Pathologist: Well, the thing is, you can’t report a body unless you can identify it in some way. I can’t just catalogue a leg and an arm as a body. It’s not considered a whole person. Dege: And are there a lot of those? Forensic Pathologist: There’s a lot. That’s why there’s only been 200 or so reported in the media. Those are bodies that have been recognized by their family as dead. If I can’t get fingerprints or dental…that’s why they’re sending us to Shreveport to get briefed on DNA, because you can get fingerprints or dental when the person has no fingers or toes or teeth left. Dege: Did all this stuff just rot off the bodies? Forensic Pathologist: They were in the water for over a week. Do you know what happens to a body when it’s been in water after a few days? Dege: Tell me. Forensic Pathologist: The skin completely falls off. You bloat up to three times the size of what you would normally be. And then after a few days, the water drains from your body and you shrivel up. Dege: That’s terrible. Forensic Pathologist: So we have to cut off their hands and attempt to rehydrate them to get fingerprints…or just cut the rest of flesh off completely. Dege: Back to your first day on this assignment. Forensic Pathologist: After being suited up in a protective clothing—socks, gloves, mask—I walked in and saw all of this process going on. About 900 bodies in the building. A bunch of them in this one room being worked on. They’d constructed a makeshift morgue to deal with the massive amount of dead. And I went to work, doing fingerprinting. Worked about 18 hours straight and went through about 400 of those bodies and we were able to fingerprint about 178 of them. Dege: You mentioned to me earlier that you’d almost quit the first day. Forensic Pathologist: I’ve taken classes and done the work. I’ve seen dead bodies. I’ve done preparative anatomy. I’ve worked in morgues. But I’d just…never seen mass quantities of death like that. Dege: I imagine it’s overwhelming. Forensic Pathologist: Nothing can prepare you for it. And the condition of these bodies—it was just…there’s nothing…there’s no words to explain it. I could smell it when I pulled up to the building. Dege: How would you describe the smell? Forensic Pathologist: Oh, I don’t know. It’s hard…it’s like the worst bayou you’ve ever been to with dead alligators floating in it. Dege: How many people were working along with you? Forensic Pathologist: Three of us, at first. Another guy about my age was doing the bigger bodies. And I was dealt with nothing but kids. I went through over 400 babies…all of them under the age of 8—most of them around 3 or 4 months old—just babies. After working with all these kids all day, I went home and just stayed up all night, debating on whether or not I could even go back. I was just so freaked out. And the next day, I found everyone else on the team had bailed. Dege: Because they were in shock like you were? Forensic Pathologist: Yes. And there was no one to do this, so the more I thought about it…I decided to go back the next day. Dege: How was the second day? Forensic Pathologist: A little better. I’ve been going for 10 days straight now. You don’t get used to, but I’m looking at it on a totally different level. Dege: You’ve gotten some distance from the emotional impact of it. Forensic Pathologist: Definitely. I don’t want to sound cruel or uncaring about these people and their lives, but I have to separate myself from that in order to do the job. I’m trying to identify these people, so their loved ones know where their family is. And there’s not that many people qualified enough to do it around here. We need help. Dege: What kinds of injuries have you witnessed so far? Forensic Pathologist: To the bodies? Dege: Yeh. There’s stories of people getting their throats cut, shot, and all that stuff? Forensic Pathologist: I haven’t dealt with any gunshot wounds, no throats cut. All I’ve dealt with so far is just drowning victims. And their bodies are in such horrible condition because they’ve been eaten on by alligators, rats, and crabs. I open up some of body bags and crabs are in there…dead. These bodies have just been eaten. They’ve been sitting on water for days and days and days before they even got picked up and brought to us. Dege: How many bodies would you say are at the facilities where you’ve been working? Forensic Pathologist: Well, we got another truckload of 800 that was brought to Shreveport. I don’t know how many they’ll have when I go back, but I have at least 1500 in Baton Rouge, in addition to those at the Baton Rouge morgue and the Hammond morgue. Dege: That’s a lot of people that have yet to be reported. What other causes of death can you guess from what you’ve seen? Forensic Pathologist: This is going to sound horrible, but looking at these people, it looks as if some of them died of starvation. I’ve dealt with nothing but the most poverty stricken people you’ve ever seen in your life. Of the 1,400 bodies I have personally seen, I have not seen one white person. Not one Mexican. Not one Asian. All of them have been black. And at least 400 or 500 of those were children under the age of 9. 1,200 of them women and children. Young women, under the age of 30. And probably 100 of those women were pregnant. No textbooks can prepare you for this. Dege: That’s terrible. Forensic Pathologist: These people died because they were poor and black…and most of those are children. You’ve seen the pictures of kids in Ethiopia…with their stomachs extended? This is what these babies are looking like. Dege: Do you think these kids were starving to death before the flood? Forensic Pathologist: Believe me they drowned, but half of them were starving to death before they drowned in this hurricane. Our first truck came from the 9th Ward. Dege: …which is one of the poorer sections of town. Forensic Pathologist: Yes. Dege: Just like with the Iraq War to some extent, the news media, gathered in New Orleans, is being barred from filming the bodies or the body bags being taken out. Forensic Pathologist: I cannot bring any personal effects when I go up to work—no cameras, no food, water. Anything. I have to totally strip down when I go down there and change, but that’s because it’s such a toxic environment. Dege: What other difficult things have you experienced with this job? Forensic Pathologist: Probably last Saturday. Dege: Which was what…September 10th? Forensic Pathologist: Yeh, we went down to New Orleans in a freezer truck to get more bodies. There were still people trapped in New Orleans. There were still people sitting on the bridges. Dead bodies on the side of the bridges with people sitting by them, waiting for buses. Dege: That’s more than 10 days after the Hurricane. Forensic Pathologist: You know where the Superdome is? That exit? That’s where we were and that’s as far as we could go. And there was people still out there. Dege: People yet to be evacuated. ForensicPathologist: Yes. Waiting. Just waiting. Dege: And were the majority of these people black? Forensic Pathologist: Yeh…overwhelmingly. Everyone. All of them. And they’re just in horrible condition. It’s understandable that they’re in bad moods and what…but they were yelling and cussing at me. We came down in a big truck and they were thinking we were there to help them, when in fact; we were there to pick up bodies. They were yelling at us, throwing trash, throwing stuff at the National Guard. And once they saw the National Guard, loading bodies in the truck, they started calling us everything you can imagine. Dege: How many people would you guess were there waiting to be evacuated? Forensic Pathologist: I’d say at least 100…were standing right there on that bridge. Most men. It was at 4am in the morning. And it was mostly black men. I didn’t see any women or children, so I guess these were the guys that either stayed back or what…I don’t know….maybe sent their families on ahead of them. I’m not sure what was going on with that. They were being fed by the National Guard but I’m not sure why they were still waiting. Dege: While you were there, did you see any of these mercenary security groups like Blackwater Securities? Forensic Pathologist: The National Guard wasn’t answering any or my questions…and believe I asked, because I wanted to know what was going on. But on every single block, there were at least 5 guys, dressed all in black with machine guns. On every corner you can think of. They’re all down in the French Quarter. Just everywhere. Dege: Just walking around? Forensic Pathologist: Yeh. And they weren’t in fatigues. They were all in black. And I’d asked some of the National Guard who these people were and all they said was, “You don’t need to worry about it. Just get what you need done and get out of here.” Dege: Did you hear any gunshots while you were out there? Forensic Pathologist: Yeh. Tons. It was four in the morning, on a Saturday…and I was around the corner. Dege: By the Superdome? Forensic Pathologist: Yeh, you could hear it constantly. Dege: Sporadic gunfire? Machine guns? Forensic Pathologist: I’m not sure. I just heard gunshots. Dege: How long were you out there? ForensicPathologist: From about 4am to 6am in the morning. Other than that, it’s eerily quiet. You can hear footsteps up the street. Papers rustling. Dege: Did you notice anyone being not allowed to leave? There’s stories and such about people not being allowed to walk out of the city, like to Gretna and some places. Forensic Pathologist: All I heard from the National Guard was that they were holding 7,000 inmates in the Superdome, waiting to be transferred. Dege: Back to the forensics, how many of these bodies are going to be identifiable and put in the database? ForensicPathologist: The condition of so many of these bodies is so bad that I don’t know how to answer that question. The only thing that the media can report on is an actual confirmed death—one that’s been identified and put in a database and matched. It might take years and years to figure out who these people are. Dege: So you’re saying there’s going to be a lot of uncounted deaths? Forensic Pathologist: I mean, I can’t tell you how many of the bags that I’ve opened up have just been arms and legs…or a torso…no heads. Dege: How many have you seen so far that were headless? Forensic Pathologist: I’ve come across at least 14 that were completely decapitated…but did have arms and legs, but no fingers or toes, though. The rats eat off the fingers and toes. But I’ve also seen alligator bites, shark bites, and crab bites. Dege: So you can distinguish between these various kinds of bite marks? You’ve seen alligator bites? Forensic Pathologist: Yes. Dege: Shark bites? Forensi Pathologist: Yes. There’s people who’ve been working in this profession for 40 years who haven’t seen this kind of volume ever in their careers. Dege: That’s insane. Forensic Pathologist: There were a lot of younger people and interns, throwing up in the room. When open these bags you just don’t know what to expect. You see mosquitoes, live and dead. Dege: What other kinds of things do you find with the bodies when you open them up the bags? Forensic Pathologist: Crabs, mosquitoes, small snakes, crawfish. Small fish…even tropical fish from the Aquarium of the Americas, which was shattered in the storm. The people over at the vet school who’d went into New Orleans to pick up all the dead animals…they told me that they had found over six adult sharks…and that they were alive. They alive and swimming and they had to kill them and bring them back here to burn them with the rest of the dead animals. Dege: From the streets of New Orleans, that had to take out sharks? Forensic Pathologist: Yes. I thought it was a joke, too, but it’s true. Dege: Yeh, I’d interviewed a guy who’d said he saw a shark, but I didn’t take him that seriously. Forensic Pathologist: That brash water that washed in with the storm…it’s saltwater. Those things were surviving. They did for a few days at least. Dege: How many human bodies are still out there? Forensic Pathologist: I’ve heard estimates of up to 15,000. And it keeps rising daily. 15,000 was the last estimate I’d heard. Dege: How’s the Red Cross been in all of this? Forensic Pathologist: I don’t know what it is—I’m sure they’re under a lot of stress, too—but the Red Cross employees I’ve worked with at my facility—a few of them have had pretty shitty attitudes. Dege: The Red Cross? Forensic Pathologist: I’m not sure what it is, and it’s not all of them, but yes, I’ve had a couple problems with attitudes. Dege: What else? Forensic Pathologist: You couldn’t imagine all these politicians that have come down and done photo ops. It’s sickening. Dr. Phil even came down there. Dege: And there’s a ring of insincerity to these things? Forensic Pathologist: They are not here to fucking help. I did an on camera interview with one of the representatives from FEMA who asked me what I’d seen, what’d I’d been through, and what I thought people needed. And I said you need to get all these goddamn politicians out of this town and bring us resources. We need supplies. We need all of the stores to be stocked here, 24/7. We need help here. We need doctors. We need donations to fly forensics people in. Help us. We need help like that. Dege: And what was his reaction? Forensic Pathologist: He pushed to the side and got out the way, because cameras were around and they didn’t want to hear what I had to say. Dege: And you were on camera while this was being recorded? Forensic Pathologist: I was on camera and people were taking pictures, because this guy from FEMA came up and asked my opinion. I guess they were trying to do this little publicity thing. Dege: A little Q & A. Forensic Pathologist: Exactly. I told him my thoughts. They turned off the camera and walked away. Dege: What else do you need at your facility? Forensic Pathologist:
We need people qualified to do forensic science. To do DNA. There aren’t
many people in Baton Rouge qualified to do DNA. And we have 2,000 bodies
or something? We need help. We need people that are qualified to come down
here and help. Everyone that I’m working with is volunteering. Do you want
this to drag on for two years? We need professionals. And we need money to
fly these professionals in. We need help just recovering the bodies. Convention Center Evacuee: Man, I’m a veteran and this was one of saddest, most tragic things I’ve ever seen in my life. And I’ve seen many things. Dege: So you were at the Convention Center? ConventionCenterEvacuee: Yes. Man, this thing happened right here in the United States. This ain’t a foreign country. This happened in Louisiana. This happened, you know… Dege: There are a lot of horror stories coming out of what happened at the Convention Center. What are some of things you witnessed? ConventionCenterEvacuee: Man, the police got guns on. They backing them up. Women dying. Elderly people. I don’t care what color they was…it was a rainbow in there. All kinds of people. And these people were dying. Dege: What were they dying from? ConventionCenterEvacuee: No insulin. No water. No medication. No nurses. This was the Convention Center. Then you had to fight off the ruffians. I had 8 old people — I had to swim to get them and bring them in. I was looking out for these people. Holding off the thugs. I had a white guy — he was so scared, he was defecating on himself. Dege: What’s the story with all these crazy thugs, running around in there? ConventionCenterEvacuee: You see, that’s the drama. These people didn’t care. You had animals. Criminals. There were rapes. Somebody could’ve came and helped us out, but they didn’t. There were rapes. Girls got their necks…throats slashed. They had guys dying, getting stabbed. Dege: What percentage of the people there were thugs? ConventionCenterEvacuee: Quite a few. Quite a few. Because when you an entity like that, you’re going to have that. Poor people prey on poor people. Dege: It’s sad. ConventionCenterEvacuee: It is sad, man. But it’s a thing where it should have not happened. Dege: I agree. ConventionCenterEvacuee: Water was scarce. There were no provisions. Now, Nagin tried to redeem himself, but him and Blanco is definitely out. And Bush just doesn’t care, because he’s out anyway. This didn’t happen in a foreign country. I done seen…and went into foreign countries and it wasn’t bad like this. Dege: Ok. ConventionCenterEvacuee: Look here, where’s the Navy pumps? Where’s the Army pumps? All the military got equipment like that…that could’ve been shipped in and used right away. They could throw a pump in there and drain a block in I don’t know how long. I don’t know why this happened. Obviously, it’s treason against the American people. And the reason is—nobody gives a damn. It’s protocol. Dege: Unfortunately, I think you’re right. Something with this administration. ConventionCenterEvacuee: It’s sad, man. The National Guard showed their face once. One time. Dege: How long were you over there at the Convention Center? ConventionCenterEvacuee: I was over there five days, man. No water, so the guys start stealing. And some knuckleheads would steal clothes, but people with sense would take water and food…because you had babies dehydrated. Ya’ll saw the pictures. Ya’ll saw the woman, sitting up there in the wheelchair, dead. Dege: What was it like at night, trying to sleep or just get through all of that madness? ConventionCenterEvacuee: It was horrible. Not so much for myself, because I’m still fairly young and can take care of myself, but for others, it was a nightmare. For the older people, I had to fend people off—them crazy ones. I had a group of eight old folks I was protecting. Some of them fools ain’t got no respect for life or nothing—there’s no respect. Dege: What were these young, crazy dudes trying to do? ConventionCenterEvacuee: They were trying to do anything they could. Dege: What possesses people to want to do that kind of stuff? ConventionCenterEvacuee: Drugs. Serious drugs. I mean, hyped up. Ecstasy. Crack. Heroin. Everybody don’t think the same. Some people are compassionate. They see an old man and they feel compassion. Some guys aren’t. They want take and kill and get what they want to get. There’s an anger in them. That’s the way it is. It’s sad, man. Dege: I agree. ConventionCenterEvacuee: This is an awakening not just for the United States…but for everyone. If we don’t learn from this, we’ll never learn. This place is going down. This is serious shit that’s happening in the world, right now. I don’t even know how to explain. And as far as Homeland Security? That’s a joke. A joke and a half. That’s a money maker…scaring folks with a Boogie Man. Dege: Giving up their rights. Freedom. ConventionCenterEvacuee: And they’re scaring them to the point where everything is censored and only big people know what’s going on. The little persons, like you and me, don’t know anything. So this is what it’s leaning towards…and we’re falling for it. Bush said on TV that he’d take care of his people. Protect the American people. He ain’t protecting nobody anything. Nobody but himself and his own and their money.
___________________________________________________________________ Dege: In your experience, have you ever had to deal with anything like this before? Helicopter Pilot: Not to this degree. No, this is once in a lifetime, off the scale type stuff. Dege: Have you seen a lot of tragic stuff out there? HelicopterPilot: Everyday. Dege: How many search & rescues would you say you performed during the past few days? HelicopterPilot: It’s hard to say. Maybe about 20 a day…of which 3 are picked off of 2nd floor balconies. We did a house with about 6 to 8 people this afternoon. Dege: Lot of people out there? HelicopterPilot: Oh, yeah. Dege: How many would you guess are still stranded on rooftops? HelicopterPilot: Oh, there’s no way to know. A lot of people don’t want to leave—that’s probably the saddest thing—the old people that don’t want to leave their houses, because they don’t want to leave their pets, because they have no way to carry their pets. Dege: Right. HelicopterPilot: So they want to stay. Dege: Right, no food or water and they’re going to stick it out. HelicopterPilot: Oh, yeh. It’s bad. Dege: And how much of that do you see? HelicopterPilot: It’s everywhere. It’s massive. Dege: What about stories of sharks, alligators, and snakes in the street? You see any of that? HelicopterPilot: No, no sharks. (laughing) There ain’t no fucking sharks. Dege: What’s the condition of the water at this point? HelicopterPilot: The mosquitoes haven’t started to breed yet, but it’s starting to look pretty nasty. Dege: What’s one of the most unusual things you’ve seen so far? HelicopterPilot: Uh, ships on top of the levee. A barge inside of a neighborhood where levee broke. And natural gas, bubbling up out of the water…on fire. Dege: Yeh, I saw some of that on the news. HelicopterPilot: It’s everywhere. Dege: There’s been reports of people firing guns at helicopters. Did you experience any of that? HelicopterPilot: Thankfully not. Dege: What the hell is motivating that, would you guess? HelicopterPilot: I have no idea. It’s risky enough, just flying a helicopter. Dege: What do you mean? HelicopterPilot: Hell, one second it can be wonderful, solid piece of machinery, but in another few seconds—if something malfunctions—it can be ball of trash. Dege: Why is that? HelicopterPilot: It’s just the way the machine works. Needs a lot of service-maintenance. Out here in New Orleans, we’re working below the height of the trees and the wires and roofs. It’s tough conditions to be doing this kind operation. I mean, you cut your tail-rotor and the helicopter will immediately tear itself apart. Dege: That ain’t no fun. HelicopterPilot: No, it’s not. The only difference between us and the guys flying helicopters in Iraq is—our mail is getting sent to an address in the United States. Make no mistake—this is a combat zone. It’s real. And it’s not easy. Most of the pilots that have been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq were killed in operational accidents. Helicopters are delicate machines. Dege: So it’s pretty sketchy flying out there in a modern, urban landscape? HelicopterPilot: I mean, think about it. I can’t even count how many guys are in the air right now. In Iraq and Afghanistan, you would never have that many aircraft going in that many different directions…in such a theatre of chaos. And you wouldn’t have that many goddamn wires! Dege: You’ve got to watch those wires, huh? HelicopterPilot: You bet your ass, you do. Dege: How much training is involved in putting together a crew of guys to do this helicopter search & rescue stuff? HelicopterPilot: Well, it’s kind of like putting together a football team. Everybody needs to know how to play football first. Then they need to practice their individual position. Then they need to go out and practice working together. It’s a coordinated effort. Dege: To say the least. There’s stories of boat teams, going out there to rescue people, and getting their boats stolen by the people they’re trying to rescue. I don’t imagine anyone out there is stupid enough to think they can steal and fly a helicopter. HelicopterPilot: Well, even if they were, they’d have to get past the guns to do it. Dege: So ya’ll are armed? HelicopterPilot: Absolutely. We scope out the area before we go in…like combat pilots. Dege: Crazy stuff. HelicopterPilot: Yeh, you see a lot things…so much of the past week has been heartbreaking. I mean, we saw some dogs today, on roofs, and they were starving to death. Beautiful German Shepherds. Couple Dobermans. And that’s just the animals. Dege: How much longer are you going to be out there? HelicopterPilot: A couple more days. The military is there now and there’s so many of them…I just think we’d be getting in the way, duplicating their efforts. The last thing you want to do is be causing someone else a problem. We’re here to help, so our volunteer efforts are just about done. Dege: It’s a good thing people like you showed up, considering the delayed response. HelicopterPilot: Well, it’s a tragic situation. I’m just trying to help. Dege: Any last words? HelicopterPilot: I can sum it up easily. During this week…with this flood, you’re going to see the very best in humanity…and the very worst…possibly at the same time…and the same place.
____________________________________________________________________ Dege: Was your neighborhood flooded? FemaleEvacuee: It flooded the whole city, baby. Dege: How did you get from New Orleans to Lafayette? FemaleEvacuee: Bus. Dege: When did you leave New Orleans? FemaleEvacuee: Sunday. Dege: The day before the hurricane. FemaleEvacuee: Yes. Dege: Do you have family still in New Orleans? FemaleEvacuee: Yeh, but I don’t even know if they dead or alive. I’m just trying to get in touch with my damn son, because I got stuck and I couldn’t get him…and even the cab drivers got evacuated. Dege: Yeh, I’ve seen a few of them out here in Lafayette, just driving around and sleeping in their cabs in parking lots. FemaleEvacuee: Yeh, but I ain’t been able to contact nobody back in home. None of the phone lines is working. No electricity. None of that stuff. Dege: Where do you think they are? FemaleEvacuee: I have no idea. I hope they been evacuated.
___________________________________________________________________ Dege: How did you get from New Orleans to Lafayette? LoyolaStudent: I caught a ride with some people from Algiers. It was a blessing. He was leaving a friend of mine’s house and has asked if we were coming. My friend stayed, but I was too scared to stay. Dege: Because of the flooding and such? LoyolaStudent: Man, they got sharks out there! There’s sharks in the water. Dege: You saw them? LoyolaStudent: Yeh, I seen them! Dege: Swimming in the street? LoyolaStudent: Yep, that water is sky high in the east. Dege: What do you think is going to become of New Orleans after this? LoyolaStudent: I think they going to take it off the map. There ain’t no lights on. No phones. No water. Dege: What’s it like been like at night over the past few days? LoyolaStudent: Hot! It’s too scary over there at night. It gets real quiet and you can hear people screaming and gunshots firing. Like a horror movie. People crying in their house. It’s crazy. I’m telling you it’s crazy. But they say the west bank wasn’t too bad, but in the east side… Dege: Did you witness any of this looting? LoyolaStudent: We went in one store and grabbed some water and canned food. The police was letting us. Then we went in another store—a clothes store—and I grabbed some Louie Vuitton bags…like three of them. That’s how I paid for to get up here. Dege: What do you mean…you sold the bags? LoyolaStudent: I just sold one to a guy at the Greyhound station to pay for this cab ride. When people took all the food from the stores, people started grabbed anything—televisions, radios, clothes—stuff they could use to trade or sell to get the fuck out of there. Dege: So a lot of this “merchandise looting” was just the next step in trying to grab stuff to survive? LoyolaStudent: Yep, first thing everybody grabbed up was the food and water. After that, there wasn’t nothing left, so people grabbed whatever they figured they could use…or to trade for somebody else’s food. Dege: It’s disgusting—all this reporting on the news, “PEOPLE LOOTING,” and all that. What the fuck are you going to do? It’s a national disaster zone! LoyolaStudent: Man, you don’t even know unless you there in the middle of all that madness. Dege: Right. LoyolaStudent: But I think it all happened for a reason. Dege: Why’s that? LoyolaStudent: Well, like, you know how New Orleans is…they’re, like, known for killing folks, each other, selling drugs. Maybe that’s the way God’s showing them that, you know, this is enough. Dege: Like New Babylon. LoyolaStudent: Yeh. I think it happened on purpose to teach everybody…that this ain’t the way you supposed to go about things. Dege: That’s an interesting thought. Are you a very religious person? LoyolaStudent: Now I am. ___________________________________________________________________ Interview with a St.
Bernard Parish Evacuee St.BernardEvacuee: There’s dead bodies floating. Dead bodies all over. Animals. People. Our roofs were the only thing sticking out of the water. Dege: Did you see a lot of dead bodies? St.BernardEvacuee: I put kids on top of tables, man. They was dead—stuck in between the dresser and walls. Stuck in they houses. Dege: How did these people die? They just drowned? St.BernardEvacuee: Man, the water come up so fast. In 28 minutes, the water rose from zero to 4ft. Dege: And that was all from one or two levee breeches? St.BernardEvacuee: Yep. Dege: Where are ya’ll from? St.BernardEvacuee: St. Bernard Parish—a little below New Orleans. Dege: At what time of the day did the water start rising? St.BernardEvacuee: In the morning. From the time it started to an hour later, the cops wouldn’t do nothing. Dege: What could they do? St.BernardEvacuee: They had us doing. We was riding in boats, stealing people’s boats and pulling them off their roofs. Dege: How long were ya’ll stranded on your roof. St.BernardEvacuee: Not too long, cuz we started trying to help everybody else get to a safe place. We stuck around New Orleans for a few days, doing search and rescues in the boats. Didn’t hardly sleep. Ain’t bathed. And then we jumped on the back of a dump truck coming to Lafayette…and here we are. Got nothing left. Lost it all, man. Police almost put us in jail when we was leaving. Dege: Why is that? St.BernardEvacuee: Walking on the highway and flipping people off who didn’t want to stop and give us a ride. Dege: How bad is the damage to the city would you say? St.BernardEvacuee: It’s so bad down there…they going to have to come with a bulldozer and just bulldoze everything. Dege: How long do you think it’s going to take to put the city back together? St.BernardEvacuee: Probably a couple years. Dege: What other kinds of stuff did you see down there? St.BernardEvacuee: Saw a bullhead shark on I-10. Dege: In the water? St.BernardEvacuee: Laying on the side of the road. They said a cop had jumped in the water to help somebody and it almost bit the cop. Dege: Crazy. St.BernardEvacuee: Lot of people can’t swim, you know? Lot of old folks and all that. Too frail. That’s why a lot of people done drowned. ___________________________________________________________________ Interview with an
Old Man in Prison Jumpsuit Dege: I just saw 40 to 50 buses drive by. JumpsuitMan: That was us. They just dropped us off. Dege: Tell me about some the things you saw in New Orleans. JumpsuitMan: I’ll tell you exactly what went down—they flooded the city of New Orleans. Supposedly, a barge hit the levee…on the St. Bernard side of the levee. Dege: That’s what broke the levee, you think? JumpsuitMan: Yeh, it’s a disaster. Dege: They haven’t said anything about that on the news. JumpsuitMan: No, they’re not. The police in St. Bernard…can verify this—a barge hit the levee. Water came up…a foot a minute. Dege: Was this a boat or a barge tied to a tugboat? JumpsuitMan: I’m not sure. Saving the French Quarter, that’s what it is. Dege: What do you mean? JumpsuitMan: Well, the French Quarter is New Orleans’ bread and butter…and in order keep that from flooding out…they flooded us. As long as that French Quarter is there, that’s all they care about. Dege: How are you faring? You look pretty tired. JumpsuitMan: People were clinging to trees. They believe there’s 20,000 dead. Dege: What do you believe? JumpsuitMan: I believe I lost a lot of friends. Dege: Did your house get flooded? JumpsuitMan: 20ft. It’s under 20ft of water. You couldn’t see nothing in my neighborhood. Just looks like a big old lake. Snakes, alligators, fish. Dege: Any sharks? JumpsuitMan: No sharks, but I see about everything else. They brought us from one place to another and finally got us out of there. We slept in the jailhouse for the first night. Dege: That explains your orange jumpsuit. JumpsuitMan: The floodwaters blew off my clothes. It was rushing so fast; everything flew out your pockets…pulled the clothes right off your body. Dege: What’s your thoughts on this whole disaster? JumpsuitMan: Man, I don’t own nothing no more. It’s all gone. I had a house—it’s gone…and everything in it. You could barely see the roof—looked just like it was sitting in the middle of the ocean. Dege: I’m sorry to hear that. JumpsuitMan: Yeh, at least I’m alive. People was breaking through their roofs…just stranded there. Dege: Lot of people of waiting to be rescued. JumpsuitMan: I saw a deer on a roof. Deer was on the roof, trying to get away from the water. Saw a guy walking through the water with a chicken on his shoulder. You know there’s no more toe to the boot of Louisiana. Dege: No more toe? JumpsuitMan: It’s gone…like everything else. I had to climb through debris and knock the window out to climb on the roof. The flood came right after the eye of the hurricane passed, so when the second part hit, it just whipped the hell out of everything that was floating around. Dege: How many hurricanes have you survived, living in Louisiana? JumpsuitMan: Oh, I can’t even count. I made it through Betsy in ’65. I survived that one, now I got this one. I lost everything in ’65 and I lost everything in this one…but I lost more with this one. Dege: Where do you go from here? JumpsuitMan: Man, I don’t know. I lost everything I had, I got no money, and now I’m wearing prison clothes and going to a shelter. I haven’t seen a shower in a 5 days. The first toilet I seen in a week—that flushed—I saw at the rest stop on the way up here. It was like traveling into the future—that’s how bad the past week has been. We’ve been reduced to nothing. They had two Port-O-Johns for 2000 people in Chalmette. Dege: A big mess? JumpsuitMan: It was so much that it was coming off the top of the commode about 2ft. They was starting to shit in the urinal. Dege: How many people are still stuck out there? JumpsuitMan: No telling. A lot. I don’t even know where half my family is right now. And they don’t know if I’m dead or alive. Dege: Did you trying calling anyone? JumpsuitMan: All the lines are down. And you can’t get through on the cell phones, because the networks are all clogged up. It’s just a mess. I saw boats; tankers…pushed up and stuck on the levee. I mean it all looks like a big lake, now. Can’t even see the town we’re from…just whitecaps on the water. ___________________________________________________________________ Interview with a
Kenner Evacuee Dege: Do you live in New Orleans? KennerEvacuee: I live in Kenner. Dege: How’d it go? KennerEvacuee: Rode the storm out. Missed my sister, who was leaving, by about three hours, so I stayed. That was my ride out of town. Dege: How bad was the storm in Kenner? KennerEvacuee: Pretty bad. I’ve got shot some footage of it with my video camera—watched a car lift itself up on two wheels by the wind. Dege: Wow. KennerEvacuee: Lot of damage. I live in an apartment complex. It’s pretty torn up. Streets flooded afterward. We saw police, National Guard helicopters flying over us. Going by. Nobody stopped. Nobody helped us. Nobody brought food. Nobody brought water. Nothing. Dege: What’s the story behind that? KennerEvacuee: I don’t know. We were flagging them down. I started a bonfire for everybody that was in the complex, to keep everybody safe, because we kind of live in a bad neighborhood. Dege: And this was in the days after the hurricane? KennerEvacuee: Yeah, the whole week. They wouldn’t stop. They never brought us water or nothing like that. We eventually had to kick doors in to get water, because there were babies that needed water in the complex. Dege: There’s something weird going on with all this shit. KennerEvacuee: I’ve been jumping buses for two days, zigzagging around, working my way out there. Dege: How bad was the destruction you witnessed? KennerEvacuee: There were bodies floating down the road by my apartment. Dege: How many did you see? KennerEvacuee: Just two. I’m ex-National Guard, so I’ve seen bodies before. Dege: How high did the floodwaters get in your area? KennerEvacuee: Up to the traffic lights. Dege: Lot of people drowned in that I’m sure. KennerEvacuee: Some people don’t know how to swim. Some can’t. Elderly folks. There’s an elderly woman that lived a few doors down from me—we got here out—she walks in walker. She couldn’t have swam if she wanted to. Dege: When you talked to police and authorities that were passing through, did they offer you much assistance? KennerEvacuee: All
they were saying to everybody was, “You should’ve left. You should’ve got
out when you had the chance.” But they don’t understand that a lot of
people didn’t have the means to get out…even if they wanted to. Not
everybody owns a car. Not everyone has a support network of people looking
out for them.
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Dege: What kind of
work do you do?